Leaving training

TBK95

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Probably not the most popular of topics but what are the rules regarding quitting the Army during the basic training period. I want to emphatically stress this isn’t something I plan on doing. What I’m getting at is your training period included in your minimum service requirement and for whatever reason you no longer want to serve what is the process?
This made sense in my head and I hope someone can decipher it?

Thanks
 

Paratrooper1

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Discharge as of Right aka DAOR is a window that opens after completing 28 days’ service and runs to the end of 3 months from the date of your enlistment. You require to give your platoon staff 14 days notice. You can then leave without any reserve liability.
DAOR is intended for those who believe themselves to be temperamentally or mentally unsuited for Army life.

It is a serious move and should not be taken lightly. If you are in any doubt then speak with your platoon NCOs or Officer. They can discuss it with you. There are also welfare and other independent avenues you can go down for impartial and confidential advice.
Many who cannot hack PARA Coy jack and transfer out to other regiments so there are options available without leaving. If your platoon staff deem you unsuitable that is another story.
 

Iron

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As above. Just to add, DON’T QUIT. The amount of Joe that sack it off only to return a year later is staggering. I think nearly everyone has a period where they want to bin it at one point or another! This is when you need to remember why you joined in the first place. The key is COMMUNICATION. Don’t talk with a fellow recruit who wants to quit as that negative attitude is contagious. Instead talk to your screw who will give you perspective. They are well used to it. ITC also has a Padre on camp who can offer that impartial ear.
Just noted that you have expressed an interest in 4 PARA. The process is different for reserves but I am sure @4 PARA HQ will echo the above with regards to communicating your concerns with your instructors prior to any rash decisions.
 

Snows

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I'd echo what @Iron says above, don't quit. Once again the major reason people fail arduous courses like P-Coy is that they quit. So don't quit.

It's a reasonable question, because a lot of recruits or their families are understandably wary of the minimum service requirements, but they also tend to be misunderstood due to bad or outdated information from previous decades. The minimum service period isn't quite as formidable as it sounds. No unit in the modern Army wants a soldier who really, really doesn't want to be there, because they are more of a liability than an asset. It is a volunteer Army, after all. So if you really hate your life before 3 years are up, then very often units will find ways of addressing that or letting you go early. It is not like conscription in the 1940s, or the impression given by some US films or TV (usually also about conscription, Vietnam era) when your choice was do your time or go to prison. A lot of people have seen the films but not been in the Army, so they get it wrong. DAOR as described above by @Paratrooper1 is the mechanism for leaving in that way.

As a context point, as an officer, I saw a number of young soldiers who wanted to DAOR, and in all cases there was a deeper issue at the root of it. Addressing the issue meant all but one of them no longer wanted to DAOR. The Army has gotten better at recognizing and sympathetically dealing with personal issues of its soldiers, and you will probably get a lot more leeway (as the Army is both your employer and landlord) and faster help (because it has dedicated medical facilities without waiting lists) for personal, medical, mental health and other issues in the Army than you will in society in general. Also remember that regardless of how old, jaded or fearsome senior soldiers or officers may seem, they were young and new at one point as well, and they too have inner lives, so may understand better and be more sympathetic than their war face suggests. So if anyone is in this position, they should find a senior or officer they trust and just talk to them. Note I specifically don't say your chain of command: that is the default, and may be the best option, but sometimes it is not. To resolve issues, it's more important to talk to someone you trust, than someone you are arbitrarily thrown together with by a careers spreadsheet. That senior or officer can then engage with your chain of command, that is part of their job. Try to identify yourself, and be honest about, what the core problem is, rather than skipping straight to the decision to quit. You may be surprised by the better options offered to you which you were unaware of.

To your second question, it used to be that the training period was included in the minimum service period, but these things can change so check with someone more up to date: that's the kind of question any careers advisor should have on their checklist of stock answers.
 
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HP

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I'd echo what @Iron says above, don't quit. Once again the major reason people fail arduous courses like P-Coy is that they quit. So don't quit.

It's a reasonable question, because a lot of recruits or their families are understandably wary of the minimum service requirements, but they also tend to be misunderstood due to bad or outdated information from previous decades. The minimum service period isn't quite as formidable as it sounds. No unit in the modern Army wants a soldier who really, really doesn't want to be there, because they are more of a liability than an asset. It is a volunteer Army, after all. So if you really hate your life before 3 years are up, then very often units will find ways of addressing that or letting you go early. It is not like conscription in the 1940s, or the impression given by some US films or TV (usually also about conscription, Vietnam era) when your choice was do your time or go to prison. A lot of people have seen the films but not been in the Army, so they get it wrong. DAOR as described above by @Paratrooper1 is the mechanism for leaving in that way.

As a context point, as an officer, I saw a number of young soldiers who wanted to DAOR, and in all cases there was a deeper issue at the root of it. Addressing the issue meant all but one of them no longer wanted to DAOR. The Army has gotten better at recognizing and sympathetically dealing with personal issues of its soldiers, and you will probably get a lot more leeway (as the Army is both your employer and landlord) and faster help (because it has dedicated medical facilities without waiting lists) for personal, medical, mental health and other issues in the Army than you will in society in general. Also remember that regardless of how old, jaded or fearsome senior soldiers or officers may seem, they were young and new at one point as well, and they too have inner lives, so may understand better and be more sympathetic than their war face suggests. So if anyone is in this position, they should find a senior or officer they trust and just talk to them. Note I specifically don't say your chain of command: that is the default, and may be the best option, but sometimes it is not. To resolve issues, it's more important to talk to someone you trust, than someone you are arbitrarily thrown together with by a careers spreadsheet. That senior or officer can then engage with your chain of command, that is part of their job. Try to identify yourself, and be honest about, what the core problem is, rather than skipping straight to the decision to quit. You may be surprised by the better options offered to you which you were unaware of.

To your second question, it used to be that the training period was included in the minimum service period, but these things can change so check with someone more up to date: that's the kind of question any careers advisor should have on their checklist of stock answers.
This is so bang on. So many wrapped in depot and a big lot of them said it was due to welfare reasons at home. Mostly girlfriend trouble or parents. I’m pretty sure some just made these excuses for not being able to hack it but the point is that often leaving can be avoided if you just talk about the root cause. I know a lad in battalion who joined just after me who asked to leave something like 3 or 4 weeks into arriving at his company. Long story short he ended up getting a hefty lump of compassionate leave to go sort his life out and returned with no dramas. People panic and just want out when really there are ways round it.
 

Apex303

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Surprisingly there are two reasons why lads left that you wouldn't have really thought about.

First being admin, as the norm I found the younger whippets really struggled with their admin. No issues with phys but their lockers would get emptied out the top floor window after a sleepless night and you could start to see a different mind game being played. Best tip is to avoid ganging up on the weakest member. If someone has messed up you all have, even if they are a mong. You need to check on each other as much as you can. If someone if full on jack then fair play but you're not there to do the job of the screws. So work together!

Ironinng to army standard, locker monster, sleep dep, corridor and some of the other weird and wonderful things you will do really got to some lads. You really need to see it as a game almost. Don't dwell on it, just laugh at it in your head and enjoy it. If you have something to improve on make sure you do. They are trying to train you at the end of the day. Just say 'yes corporal' and get it done.

The second being the ability to transfer. I explored this option before I left and for me I decided to leave full stop. Unlike the RM where if you stay on course you will leave as a RM. Same can't be said for PARA and you have that mental game to contened with aswell.
The amount of times I heard 'well at the end of the day they all do the same job' or 'the rifles are good soldiers aswell'. Just look at your corporals and theirs and ask who you want to go to war with.
 

Snows

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The amount of times I heard 'well at the end of the day they all do the same job' or 'the rifles are good soldiers aswell'. Just look at your corporals and theirs and ask who you want to go to war with.
But...what about Corporal Sharpe!

If you ever want to really piss off a rifleman, suggest that today Sharpe would have been airborne.
 

Apex303

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But...what about Corporal Sharpe!

If you ever want to really piss off a rifleman, suggest that today Sharpe would have been airborne.
Seen on their insta 'every man a rifleman'

Need i say more
 

Bongo

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Mega post @Apex303 . I did it the other way round. I joined under another cap badge despite having a strong interest in the Reg. @Snows might remember this but there was a fad for a while back when we were still in 95s that PARA joe didn’t wear a t-shirt under their 95 shirt and always had their sleeves rolled up. Stupid looking back but right from the off as a crow the PARA Platoons always stood out.
I spent the guts of 4 years in a line inf regiment. Managed to get on HERRICK with them and then put in to transfer not long after my POTL. I'll not lie, it was an admin ball ache trying to move. Interviews with my CoC and RCMO, lots of paperwork and my old lot really dragged their heels. I sometimes thought it would be easier to leave and re join! But glad I kept on at them. I established comms with PARA RHQ who really helped. Once I passed P Coy I was straight off to 3 PARA. Spent time in a rifle coy and then landed in anti tanks pl. Speaking from experience The Reg is deffo a cut above mate and things are generally less bullshitty. Really keen blokes and you'll notice a difference in the quality of the SNCOs and Officers. In ITC you might hear that crap that you may as well transfer as we are all infantry and there are no real differences. This is a load of crap and they know it. Our quality is higher, simple. They hate us because they ain’t us. Go maroon early and stick it out.
I wish I had done it sooner to be honest.
 

Apex303

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I would also add if it does come to the point of genuinely having to transfer out of para depot. Have a serious look into a trade rather than infantry. There are still ways to be attached to 16AA and you'll more than likely find it more fulfilling as an alternative.
Completely my opinion though and hopefully those serving can add a view about trades vs infantry.

But you need to go into depot with a one track mind of leaving that place with a maroon machine. Dont use transfer as a back up because I guarantee you will try and use it. Keep going until told to stop.
 

Newt

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Do many lads leave to go to another infantry unit in training? Are they seen as weak?
 

Apex303

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A fair few
Admittedly it takes some balls to stand up and say it isn't for you. However if your response to that is transferring to another inf reg. More than likely its going to be seen as the easy route.
 

Newt

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Thanks mate. Do you mind me asking what week you got too and are you dreading or looking forward to going back
 

Newt

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I’m sure you’ll smash it this time. At least you kinda no what’s coming
 

Snows

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@Snows might remember this but there was a fad for a while back when we were still in 95s that PARA joe didn’t wear a t-shirt under their 95 shirt and always had their sleeves rolled up.
Fad? You mean worn the correct way. With a 58 pattern belt. When I commissioned elsewhere I used to get dirty looks and harrumphing for continuing that dress code. Minimises laundry and prevents heat exhaustion: that's just good admin.

A fair few
Admittedly it takes some balls to stand up and say it isn't for you. However if your response to that is transferring to another inf reg. More than likely its going to be seen as the easy route.

I think one of the things to point out about transferring elsewhere in Catterick is that, aside from P Coy which is pretty major, it's not different enough. If you are hating your life in the field as a Para joe, you are still going to be hating your life in the field in another infantry platoon. It's not the standards that make you miserable - they make your life easier - it's failing the standards, or just the situation of being wet, cold and tired. Joining another infantry regiment doesn't magically make Yorkshire sunny. So all you escape by transferring is a week of intense phys. Backsquadding is different because you get more time to learn, so if you are suffering backsquad as a Para, don't transfer.

Just to add a bit of balance, there are quantifiable comparisons to the "who is best" question. Joint courses like Juniors (LCpl to Cpl) and Seniors (Sgt) compare individuals from all regiments, and although Para and SF regularly come at or near the top, they aren't exclusively up there and competition is fierce. Where almost everyone from other regiments acknowledge that Para have a real advantage is actually toms (privates), who regularly outperform other regiments (courses like HDPRCC compares with Guards Div, etc). Which makes sense, because it is much more selective, both in recruitment standards and then depot / P Coy. All of which means: you really are getting the best recruit training at Para depot, but don't get complacent after that!
 
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Collieryboy

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Fad? You mean worn the correct way. With a 58 pattern belt. When I commissioned elsewhere I used to get dirty looks and harrumphing for continuing that dress code. Minimises laundry and prevents heat exhaustion: that's just good admin.



I think one of the things to point out about transferring elsewhere in Catterick is that, aside from P Coy which is pretty major, it's not different enough. If you are hating your life in the field as a Para joe, you are still going to be hating your life in the field in another infantry platoon. It's not the standards that make you miserable - they make your life easier - it's failing the standards, or just the situation of being wet, cold and tired. Joining another infantry regiment doesn't magically make Yorkshire sunny. So all you escape by transferring is a week of intense phys. Backsquadding is different because you get more time to learn, so if you are suffering backsquad as a Para, don't transfer.

Just to add a bit of balance, there are quantifiable comparisons to the "who is best" question. Joint courses like Juniors (LCpl to Cpl) and Seniors (Sgt) compare individuals from all regiments, and although Para and SF regularly come at or near the top, they aren't exclusively up there and competition is fierce. Where almost everyone from other regiments acknowledge that Para have a real advantage is actually toms (privates), who regularly outperform other regiments (courses like HDPRCC compares with Guards Div, etc). Which makes sense, because it is much more selective, both in recruitment standards and then depot / P Coy. All of which means: you really are getting the best recruit training at Para depot, but don't get complacent after that!
Can't comment from experience of the army but from outside, if you turn up somewhere from a group/organisation that's meant to be the best,then you are representing them. If you aren't working your arse off to be the best then people see it and their opinion of your group drops.
I have a mate who on his SRR briefing course fully expected to win everything physical (he is an alien at phys tbf). A Para Reg lad beat him by a couple of seconds on the BFT, because he "slowed down to bang on a reversing van to let the driver know people were running". He did come first in all the yomps/tabs though and other stuff. He still gets rinsed about the BFT though because it eats him up, "the Falklands generation will be embarrased" haha. He hates the thought of at capbadge beating him though or letting his capbadge down.
 

Snows

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Can't comment from experience of the army but from outside, if you turn up somewhere from a group/organisation that's meant to be the best,then you are representing them. If you aren't working your arse off to be the best then people see it and their opinion of your group drops.
I have a mate who on his SRR briefing course fully expected to win everything physical (he is an alien at phys tbf). A Para Reg lad beat him by a couple of seconds on the BFT, because he "slowed down to bang on a reversing van to let the driver know people were running". He did come first in all the yomps/tabs though and other stuff. He still gets rinsed about the BFT though because it eats him up, "the Falklands generation will be embarrased" haha. He hates the thought of at capbadge beating him though or letting his capbadge down.
Fair, and that is a great way of motivating yourself. Sometimes that is a good way of motivating a team. It's not a great way of motivating a team of teams. One of the areas in which Para Reg - actually, most infantry regiments - fall down is when they forget they are part of a larger team.

Soldiering isn't an individual sport.
 
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